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Very techite interview. All I got was it’ll be faster and easier to port over C++ code.
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Illustrated travel guides, kindda wacky looking. Recommended by Mike.
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Note daily profit and loss numbers are before commissions. $4997 for the course. I should forget about trading and start teaching instead.
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Like most new airport designs it looks imposing and cold. I prefer Changi.
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“the deal includes the return of six live Lebanese and 10 bodies, what does that say about Regev and Goldwasser? The news is not good. Israel has paid with hundreds, even thousands of prisoners for living captives.” As usual, 1 Israeli = many arabs.
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How’d you hear about the ‘Trading eMini Course’? I’m highly suspicious of anything like this, but they don’t have crazy fonts, crazy claims, crazy clip art or crazy animated gifs of flashing money. That alone puts them into the top few percent of the system sellers out there :)
Tyro - I saw a link to a recent webinar they did on TraderFeed. Yes they come across professional and experienced and all that. The price of the course though is nuts.
Brett S mentioned them? Is this what grudging respect feels like?
Their web site shows their course is about $1,500. Do you think that’s nuts? Looking at other trading-related products on the market, this sounds pretty middle-of-the-road, though the fact that they don’t sell the software without the education raises some warning flags. They say that they’ll refund your money if you haven’t doubled your course fee after 60 trading days which sounds good but is only as reliable as their word.
Just to add - I’m not in the market for e-mini education, but hypothetically if they have a legitimate product that plugged in to NinjaTrader (as they advertise) and can take automated trades with the results they post, I would pay $1,500 for it.
For some reason, I remain sceptical.
Tyro - yes he mentioned it in the recent Dollar post
Grudging respect? Didn’t get that.
The $1,500 option comes with $197 per month on-going cost. That’s $3,900 for the first year.
Anyone showing results without commissions as a sales pitch is suspect in my eyes. The forced bundling and lock-in are also not very ‘user-friendly’.
Is there a price you would consider too high?
I suppose you could do a back-of-the-envelope calculation for commissions: 8 trades/day, 20 days/mo, $10/trade ($5 each side), comes out to $1,600. Gross profit is $5275.00 for May, so call it $3,700 for the month. After costs and some vacations, that could be an extra $37,000/year, with plenty of room to expand upwards by taking bigger size. And that’s using May’s results which are the lowest reported profits for any month. If we took Feb which was the next-smallest month at $11k, the annual net profits would be $80-90k.
Yes, there are some things to not like for sure, but their monthly fee is in keeping with the market (ESignal, QCharts and MarketDelta all charge about $150/mo) and they’re charging a monthly fee not annual fee which implies they expect repeat customers. Personally, I like to see small products with a monthly fee rather than lifetime license because I know the income is essential for new features development and support.
Is there a price I would consider too high? Sure. If they were wildly out of the market or if their product fees were a significant percentage of the expected monthly profits, then I’d have a problem.
Incidentally, I e-mailed them and they’re happy to sell the product without the course, but say that the course is what describes the setups.
Perhaps you’re stuck on the $5k fee. Does it make it better if you look at the $1.5k course + $200/mo software? I wouldn’t drop $5k blind either, but it’s not the only option.
Tyro - $80-90K a year sounds pretty good, maybe warrants 10K for the course? Or 20K? Hey you still get to make 70K a year so no big deal with $20K for the course right? :-)
Btw, those results aren’t real trades from what I can see, audited actual results for that system would be more convincing. Statistics on how many of their students make it would also be interesting.
I’m not saying their stuff isn’t good, I don’t know, I didn’t try it. What I am saying is I feel it is expensive given that supporting data is insufficient to convince me and to justify the price.
In any case, sounds like you’re sold on it, good luck. Will be interesting to hear your experience with this and the outcome.
I don’t know if their stuff is any good either, but it does look more professional than many of the sites out there and their prices aren’t out of the ballpark.
I agree with you and I’m not sold on them either. I’d need a lot more information, preferably from someone unaffiliated. If you ever hear of such an elusive creature, let us know.
Thanks for the links.
i took one thing from the results…include break even trades in ur win rate!
if i have two losers, one BE, and one win - i see that as 33% and not 50% winners
Creative trade journaling :-) Mentioning win rates without expectancy is like the joke that the operation was successful but the patient didn’t survive it. I’ve had months with win rates anywhere between 30% and 60%, didn’t mean diddly-squat for how much money I actually made or lost.
eyal: LOL!
Sorry, but I’m not as keen to fork out 5K + 200/mo without giving it a test ride first - how come they don’t offer a free 2-week trial or something like that to allow us to kick the tires?
Market profile - I can get that for free elsewhere
daily s/r levels - I can get that for free elsewhere
Directional bias - the OMNI provides that for free.
So am I correct in saying that I am paying $5K + $200/mo essentially for their eMiniDayTrader software?
Phileo - No, the $5k is for the course, lifetime support and lifetime software usage. They offer other packages, including just the course or even just the software. I don’t see them offer a free trial (you could ask), but they offer to refund your money if you haven’t doubled your expenses within two months.
eyal - they list all of their trades with the number of ticks they won, including the win/loss percentages. If you want more information, it’s all there for you.
I’m not saying I support these guys, but I think they’re taking a lot of abuse for nothing.
Phileo - Very good point about trying it out and a free trial.
Just to correct the numbers, it’s 5K for lifetime or 1.5K + 200/m.
Where can you get Market Profile for free?
Based on that page it says: course + support + members area + software. There’s a video that is titled ‘exactly what you get’ maybe that has more info.
Tyro - as I said those look like theoretical trades rather than real ones. So those ticks like the win rate are theoretical unless someone corrects me and shows proof to the contrary.
I don’t see any abuse in this discussion. The main points people found hard to swallow were:
Break-even trades included in the winning %
No commissions taken into account
Trades aren’t actual audited results
No expectancy (i.e. return relative to risk)
No free-trial
Overly expensive
All these are fair comments on the material shown on their website.
Eyal - Do you think they’ve been treated fairly?
- The price in the original article was $5k and called “nuts” even though this was the most expensive package and most people would only pay $1.5k.
- They were accused of “forced-bundling” when, in reality, they let people pick-and-choose their products.
- Their win-rate was attacked and called “creative journaling” despite the fact that the stats were listed immediately below the actual trades themselves so nothing was being hidden.
- You say the win-loss rate doesn’t mean “diddly squat” and what matters is the actual returns, but they are showing the gross returns (and the net is easy to calculate).
- They didn’t include the commission, but I showed how easy it is to figure this out based on your own broker.
- They didn’t give expectancy but again, this is an easy calculation given their comment that 1.5pts is their max risk.
- You say they don’t offer a free trial, but they do offer a money-back guarantee if you don’t earn double your fees.
That’s a lot of flack and the negativity seems unwarranted and very one-sided.
You’re right the results aren’t audited, and you think they’re expensive (though I think their software is no more expensive than other trading products). I’d say that it’s very unclear what they’re actually selling you - is it some indicator, a market depth tool, a black box, a charting package or something else? They’re positioning themselves as an easy way to trade and make money which is also suspect.
Again, I’m not giving them money but with all the real scams out there, there’s no need to make these guys into something they’re not.
Yes, I think the information presented on the website was treated fairly. None of the points I mentioned was addressed directly as I would expect them to be. Obviously, different people have different expectations and ways to interpret information. To each his own with what he’s willing to ‘buy’ or not.
Is been a while since last comment here.. any news about eMiniDayTrader?
Reading all the above comments and the eMiniDayTrader site i’d have to agree that they make a good job on creating demand and interested but without any prouves is all hype. Theoretical trades with no entry/exit levels and just tick gains/loss does not count as a real prouve. And another thing that got my attention was the copyright claims.
on their website that, “the copyright [for their software] was issued in 2004 by the U.S. copyright office.”
FYI, the US Copyright Office does not “issue” copyrights the way the U.S. patent office issues patents. You can register, for $10.00, original material with the U.S. Copyright Office, but you don’t need to do so in order to defend your copyright. This is an elitetrader forum post that describe best what i mean:
“I realize this may seem like hair-splitting, but their statement is put forth in such a way as to imply that there is something unique, indeed “patent-able,” about their software. But, of course, they haven’t actually been issued patent — which are only granted after a rigorous review process. So, instead, they claim to have been “issued” a copyright, which is a non-sequitor.
If they’re willing to bend the facts of such a minor point, what else will they distort?”
don - no news on my side, the last I touched on this was in the comments on this post. Maybe someone else pursued this further.